Search this site   
Greg Bender

Moto Guzzi Loop Frames - Forks

 
Antietam Classic Cycle - Excellent service spanning tune-ups to restorations
Decals from John Prusnek - Very nicely produced decals you'll be proud to adhere
Relays from Dan Prunuske - Great product, great prices
Stainless Cycle - Conveniently assembled and polished stainless fastener kits
Zydeco Racing - Top notch transmission & rear drive service at unbelievable pricing

Fork lock pieces and parts

I extracted this information from Marty and Charlie Mullendore of Antietam Classic Cycle on the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group.

I called Bob's BMW last Saturday morning and ordered-up the BMW fork lock, and it is the same Niemann part, complete with a pair of keys. There are 2 small differences to the Guzzi part; 1) the Guzzi part has a spring around the lock pin, which the new part doesn't, so just swap it over, and 2) the Guzzi lock is ground flat on both sides of the business end of the pin so the end of the pin is about 7 mm wide, but the BMW part is a straight cylinder. I realize now that this relief is so the pin can engage the keyway that's ground in the steering tube, doing the locking, so there's a little grinding to do.

BMW part numbers and prices are as follows (Marty ordered these parts from Bob's BMW; Bench Mark Works also sells them):

  • Lock and 2 keys: p/n 51 25 1 243 274
  • Fork cover rivet: p/n 07 11 9 944 651
  • Spring washer for the rivet: p/n 07 11 9 932 100
  • Chrome cover with rivet and washer: p/n 32 32 9 016 101

Fork lock removal

  1. Use a small screwdriver to pry the chrome cover pin out. Try to pry behind the cover so as not to damage the front.
  2. If you have the key, you can just insert the key, turn it, and withdraw the lock.
  3. If you do not have the key, you have a choice to make...
    • Drill it out and replace it with a new one. If you choose this method, be sure you remove the steering head bearings beforehand.
    • Take it to a locksmith, have them pick it and withdraw it and then have them make a key for it.
    Unless you know an inexpensive locksmith, drilling and replacing the lock is probably the most cost effective route to go.

Fork seal carrier leaks/spinning at crimped area

I extracted this information from Mark Etheridge of Moto Guzzi Classics off of the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group. In Mark's own words...

Have seen quite a few like this. I clean the inside out real good with carb cleaner, then high pressure blow it. Then I get heat gun and get collar real warm, then with a popscikle stick I put jb weld down there. The heat helps it kind of flow a lot better. Never had one leak or spin after doing this.

Fork seal cross-references

Two identical fork seals are used on the forks - one per fork tube (35 mm ID x 50 mm OD x 10 mm thick).

Fork top plug o-ring alternatives

Thanks to Charles Hamer for sending me this information. In (mostly) Charles' own words...

I got some info concerning o-rings for the fork top plugs. It took me some time trying out a bunch of different sizes before finding a nice fit, the OEM o-ring comes straight from Italy but IMO does not provide a nice fit. It is almost unecessary because it is so sloppy. For some reason it might have been intended by Guzzi engineers, but to me it does not make sense. So I found some good alternative o-rings in metric sizes, they can be found at Advance Auto Parts or McMaster Carr.

Click to enlarge

Click to enlarge

Click to enlarge

Steering damper kit

Here is Joe Jump's bolt-on steering damper kit which he sells for USD $125.00. In Joe's own words:

It really is a nice working damper set-up. I used to experience a low frequency "wallow" at speeds above 65 MPH (bags and a Harley-type windshield) - now that's gone. The damper is a hydraulic unit with seven adjustment positions from off to very stiff - a quality built Japanese unit. As you can see from the "mounted" picture, I've oriented the unit across the centerline of the frame so that the adjustment easily accomplished underway with a gloved left hand. In my case I've set it two clicks up from off and leave it there - don't even notice it in town.

If you are interested, contact Joe directly at: jumpjg>at<hotmail.com

Click to enlarge

Click to enlarge

Click to enlarge

Steering damper kit with leg shields

Thanks to Frank Granli who sent this information to me in a private communication. In Franks's own words:

I also have installed a police fairing, leg shields and a Joe Jump steering damper and all of this goes together well. You will see from the pictures that only a single nut on each bolt was necessary to give room for the Joe Jump crash bar clamp.

Click to enlarge

Click to enlarge

Click to enlarge

Click to enlarge

Steering damper replacement

Joe Jump gave me the inspiration to do this based upon the experiences he shared on the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group.

Steering dampers can be quite expensive...and finding the original Guzzi mounting brackets can be difficult. So, I used the following materials:

  • One steering damper from MikesXS, item number 28-4008. This is the part that Joe Jump identified. 7 position adjustable in 20 pound force increments. The overall length from tip to tip is 270mm. The maximum stroke is 87mm. The stud is threaded for an 8 mm x 1.25 mm nut. The hole in the other end is sized to accept a 8 mm bolt.
  • One 30 mm split collar from McMaster-Carr, item number 6063K22.
  • A short length of 3/4" wide, 1/8" thick mild steel; bent in the vice to fit.
  • A stainless steel flat washer and stainless steel lock nut to secure the steering damper to the split collar.
  • A stock aluminum spacer block (alternatively, a 16 mm long aluminum spacer could be used), 55 mm long stainless steel hex-head bolt, two stainless steel flat washers, and one stainless steel lock nut to secure the steering damper to the bottom of the triple tree plate. Given the 8 mm hole in the steering damper, I secured the damper through the 8 mm threaded hole in the aluminum spacer block. I found this preferrable to sourcing an appropriately sized bushing and securing the steering damper to the 6 mm hole in the aluminum spacer block. I'm sure either method would work.
  • Modified civilian turn signal brackets or police turn signal brackets. I made my own modified civilian turn signal brackets from a length of 3/16" x 1-1/4" 304 stainless steel bar. I chose to make my own out of stainless steel because it was cheaper than having my existing - already slightly bent - brackets re-chromed. Only the right bracket needs to be modified, but I created a pair so that they would match visually.
  • Important Note: I originally used a 30 mm long aluminum spacer, 70 mm long stainless steel bolt, two stainless steel flat washers, and one stainless steel lock nut to secure the steering damper to the bottom of the triple tree plate. I did this so that the body of the steering damper would clear the civilian turn signal brackets that I have installed. Moving the steering damper that far down allowed it to come in contact with my fender and dent it. Be absolutely sure that you have a minium of 4.5" between the bottom of the steering damper (and all related hardware) and the top of the corresponding point on the fender. If there isn't, then there is a very real risk of denting the front fender.

Click to enlarge
A view of the entire set-up installed.A view of the entire set-up installed.

Click to enlarge
The bracket welded to the split collar.The bracket welded to the split collar.

Click to enlarge
The bracket welded to the split collar.The bracket welded to the split collar.

Click to enlarge
The bracket welded to the split collar.The bracket welded to the split collar.

Click to enlarge
The split collar installed.The split collar installed.

Click to enlarge
This is how I secured the steering damper to the aluminum spacer block. Not stock...but works great.This is how I secured the steering damper to the aluminum spacer block. Not stock...but works great.

Click to enlarge
A stainless steel nylon lock nut and flat washer secures the whole mess to the lower triple tree.A stainless steel nylon lock nut and flat washer secures the whole mess to the lower triple tree.

Click to enlarge
View from front...the bottom of the stock fairing extends lower than the bolt head. This is GOOD!View from front...the bottom of the stock fairing extends lower than the bolt head. This is GOOD!

Click to enlarge
A good look at how I relieved a portion of the right turn signal bracket to clear the body of the steering damper.A good look at how I relieved a portion of the right turn signal bracket to clear the body of the steering damper.

Click to enlarge
The pair of stainless steel civilian turn signal brackets that I created.The pair of stainless steel civilian turn signal brackets that I created.

Click to enlarge
The pair of stainless steel civilian turn signal brackets that I created.The pair of stainless steel civilian turn signal brackets that I created.

Steering dampers, aluminum spacer blocks, fork travel, and fender dents

I met Kim Schick at the 2006 MGNOC national rally in Elkader, Iowa. We got to talking about steering dampers and I learned that Kim had cast a number of the special aluminum blocks for mounting the steering damper to the underside of the triple tree. First class work and Kim hooked me up with one (Thanks!).

Click to enlarge

Click to enlarge

After examining numerous loops using the stock steering damper set up, Kim and I found that most (all?) had some sort of fender dent from the head of the bolt contacting the top of the fender on full fork spring compression. It seems that even the stock configuration did not fully account for the issue of full spring compression. After further investigation, Kim found that the pocket recess in the lower triple tree for the aluminum spacer block is different between different models. Specifically, he found the following differences:

  • MG# 12494200 Early V700 (found in first edition spare parts catalog only): Aluminum block is flush with the triple tree.
  • MG# 12494201 Later V700, All Ambassador and All Eldorado (found in all other spare parts catalogs I have): Aluminum block is flush with the triple tree.
  • MG# 12494070 Side car triple tree: Aluminum block protrudes from triple tree ~1/8".

After further contemplation, I decided to calculate the minimum space needed between the bottom of the lower triple tree and the top of the fender (thanks to Paul Linn for taking the time to measure the maximum fork travel on a set of uninstalled drum brake forks he had). Here is the math and logic I used...

  1. Total tube travel within each fork leg is 4.5" or 114.3 mm
  2. Part - but not all - of that total travel is taken up by the spring. The stock spring wire diameter is 5.76 mm and has 16 turns. When fully compressed, the spring would take up 92.16 mm of space (5.76 * 16 = 92.16)...or roughly 3.628". The Wirth progresively wound replacement spring has a wire diameter of 6 mm and approximately 14 turns, yielding 84 mm when fully compressed. Given that the spring can compress more than the total available travel, the spring will
    1. never completely compress or bottom out
    2. will never - in and of itself - prevent the fender from hitting the anything connected to the bottom of the lower triple tree
    I believe this to be a good thing as the spring should never completely compress, or bind (Thanks to Mike Tiberio for confirming my thoughts on avoiding complete spring compression).
  3. That leaves 22.14 mm (or a little less than 1") of available free space. Were a person to install a preload spacer on top of the springs, 22mm would be the absolute maximum you would want to go...and that thick of a spacer would be very close to completely compressing the spring upon maximum fork travel. I don't have a preload spacer installed on my Ambassador. But if I ever do install one, I think I would limit it to about 10 mm.

The key point from all this math and logic is that there needs to be a minimum of 4.5" between the bottom of the triple tree and the top of the corresponding point on the fender. If there isn't, then there is a very real risk of denting the front fender.

It is easy to check your machine. Jack up the front end so that the front wheel is off the ground. This extends the front fork completely. Then, just measure between the triple tree and the fender. I checked mine and my steering damper bolt was about 4" from the fender...hence my dent.

The bottom line is that there are steps that must be taken any time a steering damper is added in order to avoid dents in the top of your fender. Here are a few suggestions:

  1. THE WRONG WAY: Install a preload spacer on top of each spring that takes up more than the available 22 mm of free space. Doing so will limit total travel. The downside is that there is a very real chance of the spring completely collapsing and binding. THIS IS BAD. DON'T DO IT.
  2. Modify the steering damper mount/bolt so that you have a minimum of 4.5" of space between it and the top of the fender. Here are some ideas...
    • If you are using the stock aluminum spacer block and it protrudes below the pocket in the triple tree, file off the protruding portion to get the steering damper as snug to the triple tree as possible.
    • Use a bolt with a low profile head to secure the steering damper to the aluminum block. Perhaps a button head bolt would work well.

Steering head bearing cross-references

Thanks to Bob Greene for providing key starting information for these cross-references.

The physical dimensions of the tapered roller bearings (MG# 92249225) are as follows:

  • ID: 25 mm
  • OD: 52 mm
  • Width: 16.25 mm

Here are various cross-references:

  • Maryland Metric item no. 30205
  • FAG 30205A
  • RIV 01/02/7205
  • SKF 30205J2
  • SNR 30205
  • STEYR 30205

Steering head travel side to side (how to limit)

After installing the stock fairing, I noticed that when I turned the handlebar fully left or fully right, that the fairing would hit the tank - not good. This is not an issue while riding, but becomes annoying when maneuvering the bike around the garage, parking, etc.

I had initially thought about performing some surgery on the fairing, but I'm glad I didn't. Instead, I drilled and tapped the solid round bar welded to the front of the frame that serves to limit the steering travel side to side. A 13/64" drill and a 6 mm x 1 mm tap did the job just fine. A 6 mm x 1 mm x 8 mm bolt screwed in all the way works perfect.