Moto Guzzi Loop Frames - Miscellaneous

Bearing retaining compound recommendations

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Bearing retaining compounds made by companies such as Loctite® or Permatex® are wonderful products. Although their use is not always necessary, here is where I might use bearing retaining compounds:

Green (bearing retaining)

• Carrier bearing to swing arm [AS NEEEDED]
• U-joint to carrier bearing [AS NEEEDED]
• Each bearing race within the transmission [AS NEEEDED]

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Bearing sources

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Here are a few places for you to look. Some I've used and some I haven't.

• Emerson Bearing Co. (contributed by Charlie Mullendore of Antietam Classic Cycle in a personal email)
  201 Brighton Avenue
  Boston, MA. 02134
  (617) 782-1400
  (800) 225-4587
  (800) 252-1996 (Fax)
• McMaster-Carr
• Motion Industries
• Maryland Metric
• Obsolete Bearing (contributed by Jean Drohé in a personal email)
  Unit 5, Holland Business Park
  Spa Lane, Lathom, Lancs, UK, L40 6JG
  + 44 (0) 1695 720481
  + 44 (0) 1695 50111 (Fax)
• South Shore Bearing Distributors, Inc. (contributed by Jay Duval in a personal email)
  111 Copeland Street
  Quincy, MA. 02169
  (617) 471-7800
  (617) 479-9192 (Fax)

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Books

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Moto Guzzi history and information

• 80 Years of Moto Guzzi Motorcycles by Mario Colombo; ASIN: 8879112198
• Illustrated Moto Guzzi Buyer's Guide by Mick Walker; ISBN: 0879389885
• Moto Guzzi Big Twins by Greg Field; ISBN: 0760303630
• Moto Guzzi Gold Portfolio 1949-1973 by R. M. Clarke; ISBN: 1855203790
• Moto Guzzi V-Twins: The Complete Story by Mick Walker; ASIN: 1861261802
• Moto Guzzi: Forza in Movimento by David G. Styles; ISBN: 0760310041
• The Moto Guzzi Story: Racing and Production Models from 1921 to the Present Day by Ian Falloon; ISBN: 1859604145

Books about improving your riding skills

• Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well by David L. Hough; ISBN: 1889540536
• Street Strategies: A Survival Guide for Motorcyclists by David L. Hough; ISBN: 1889540692
• More Proficient Motorcycling: Mastering the Ride by David L. Hough; ISBN: 1931993033

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Check list

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This is a check list of things to evaluate when you are considering yet another loop frame basket case. Bob Greene provided this to me...originally created by Dave Otis.

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Conversions (fractions to English to metric)

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Conversion chart

Life became much simpler for me when I purchased a English/Metric Dial Caliper. But, converting fractions to decimals in my head is not something I enjoy doing. So, I created a little conversion chart that I keep inside my caliper case.

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Convert software

Josh Madison has a wonderful freeware conversion tool: Convert

Google calculator

Google can perform an amazing number of conversions right in the search bar: Google calculator

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CrampBuster (Cramp Buster) review

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The CrampBuster is a well designed product that works. It stays in place and does not rotate or move when used (this is in stark contrast to the "Throttle Rocker", which is of very poor design - see review on this page). It even works well on the curved and slick Gran Tourismo grips.

The CrampBuster is available in four sizes: a narrow and a wide for regular hand grips (1 1/8" diameter) and a narrow and a wide for oversized hand grips (1 3/8" diameter). The wide version will definitely provide a lot more surface area on which to rest you hand. But, it does take up more hand grip width. Personally, I prefered the narrow version because my grips are not very wide. For wider hand grips, the wide version would be great.

As with any change to your handlebar controls, it does take a bit of getting used to. Out on the highway, it is easy to get it adjusted to exactly where you want it to be. Around town, however, you may find that it gets in your way as you do a lot of throttle twisting. But it is quick and easy to take it on and off as desired. Storage is simple: stick it in your pocket, hook it over your belt, wrap it around it an empty spot on your handlebars, stuff it in your tank bag or panniers, etc.

NOTE: The CrampBuster is an original, patented design. The "Throttle Rocker" was copied from the original CrampBuster design and infringed on the CrampBuster patent.

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Cruise control

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I've wanted some type of cruise control or throttle lock for some time, but I wasn't sure what to use that would work. I tried using the Throttle Rocker (see review on this page), but it turned out to be worthless. My Dad uses a twist-assist (the kind that stick into the end of the handlebar), but that wouldn't work with my bar-end mirrors. I finally decided to go with the Sound Off Safety (SOS) Vanda-Cruise and ordered one from a generic motorcycle parts house online.

SOS stopped making the Vanda-Cruise years ago. The replacement is called the Vista-Cruise and is made of plastic instead of chromed metal. You'll probably have a hard time finding a Vanda-Cruise (the parts house I purchase mine from sold me their last...and the package had plenty of shelf wear).

The Vanda-Cruise came in three models: B (3 1/2" arm), HKY (2 3/4" arm), and ST (2 1/2" arm). The model I got was the ST and was supposed to be for Suzuki, Triumph, and pre-79 Moto Guzzi motorcycles.

Unfortunately, my 1972 Moto Guzzi Ambassador did not fall within the "pre-79 Moto Guzzi" category as defined by SOS. What I really needed was the model B with the 3 1/2" arm (neither the 2 3/4" nor the 2 1/2" arms are long enough to clear the throttle and clutch lever). But, since it was unlikely that I would be able to find a B model, I decided to make my ST model work. Here is what I did:

• Replaced the 8/32" bolt that connects the 2 1/2" arm to the throttle collar with a longer bolt. I used a few nuts and washers to align and stiffen things properly.
• Replaced the three 8/32" set screws that connect the throttle collar to the throttle with longer set screws.

That's it! All it took was a quick trip to the hardware store and about 30 minutes of install time.

Update: I removed the Vanda-Cruise entirely. In the end, I found it a little too cumbersome for my taste. Instead, I'm using the spring-loaded throttle adjustment screw that Guzzi built in from the beginning. I'm able to set it just tight enough to keep the throttle from closing...and just loose enough to allow me to operate it conveniently. I'm happy with this set up and don't think I'll ever change.

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Crush washer sizes

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Thanks to Charles Hamer for sending me this information.

• Aluminum crush washer for bolt covering the hidden allen nut securing the cylinder head (MG# 95100709):
  20 mm x 28 mm x 2 mm
• Aluminum crush washer for drain plug on engine and fill plug on engine, transmssion, and rear drive: (MG# 90714195):
  20 mm x 28 mm x 2 mm
• Aluminum crush washer for level and drain plugs on transmission and rear drive (MG# 90714101):
  10 mm x 20 mm x 1 mm
• Aluminum crush washer for banjo bolts oil lines to cylinder head (MG# 12154200):
  8 mm x 14 mm x 1 mm
• Aluminum crush washer for pipe oil pressure sending unit (MG# 12006400):
  12 mm x 20 mm x 1 mm
• Fiber washers for gas tank petcocks (MG# 90714123):
  12 mm x 20 mm x 1 mm

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Fasteners (nuts and bolts)

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I originally found a spreadsheet with this information on the internet. Bob Greene informed me that Dave Otis originally created this file. I've updated some of the information and some data remains to be updated. To the best of my knowledge, metric fasteners (with a hardness rating of 8.8, except for the six flywheel bolts that use black oxide bolts with a hardness rating of 10.9) are used exclusively except for Lucas parts. Lucas parts (fender reflectors and turn signals) use standard size fasteners.

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Gasket removal

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Up until the Winter of 2003, I removed gaskets using blunt blades, careful application of razor blades, and constant worry about gouging the soft aluminum mating surfaces. But, while perusing an aisle at the local auto parts store, I picked up a can of Permatex Gasket Remover 80646. This stuff worked very well and made my life much easier. Essentially, I just needed to apply the spray, let it set for a few minutes, and rub off the gasket material with a rag or paper towel. It is a good idea to have some ventilation when using this product.

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Looplifter

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Tom Short provided these pictures of his "Looplifter". The 'Looplifter' fits right inside the existing 'lips' on the jack.

Having purchased a Craftsman motorcycle jack (Sears item #00950190000 - purchased on sale for USD $69.99), I created my own version of the "Looplifter". I used scrap iron I had leftover from another *failed* project. Specifically, I used 1" angle iron for the rectangular frame and 3/4" angle iron for the support that comes into contact with the bottom rail of the motorcycle frame. I chose to make each support adjustable by welding two 5/16" nuts at each corner. I also drilled a hole through the bottom of each corner so that the 5/16" bolt could screw through the bottom of the rack. As you can tell, I'm not a professional welder, but it is strong.

the jackthe jack

removing the rubber padsremoving the rubber pads

rubber pads removedrubber pads removed

Looplifter bolted to jackLooplifter bolted to jack

Looplifter bolted to jackLooplifter bolted to jack

close up of adjustable support, electrical tape used to protect frameclose up of adjustable support, electrical tape used to protect frame

Looplifter painted blackLooplifter painted black

Charlie Mullendore of Antietam Classic Cycle provided these pictures of the "Looplifter" the he was given by Pat Galbraith. The "Looplifter" is of unknown origin.

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Machine work

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If you live in Central Kansas, Peter Aversa (a.k.a., Pistol Pete) is the man to see for all your machining needs. He has a well-equipped machine shop and I recommend him without reservation. Contact him at (316) 772-0335 and let him know that my brother, Ted Bender, sent you.

Timbucktoo Machine
10003 South Hertzler Road
Sedgwick, KS. 67135
Google Map

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Miles Per Hour Calculation

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I extracted this information from Charley Cole of Zydeco Racing on the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group. In Charley's own words:

(RPM × 60 × Circumference of Rear Tire) ÷ (5280 × 12 × Overall Drive Ratio) = MPH

The circumference of the rear tire should be entered in decimal form and in inches.

Example...24 3/4", enter 24.75"

Circumference is 2 × 3.14 × radius of your tire. Measure with the tire/wheel absolutely vertical (check with level) from the contact patch (ground/floor) to the center of your axle.

The overall drive ratio is your primary ratio × your gear ratio × your final drive ratio. All of these values are in the factory manuals and also Guzziology.

You can use this formula to calculate your speed in any gear, at any RPM, with stock or non stock combinations of any gearbox, rear drive or wheel/tire size. It is useful to predict the effect of gearing changes such as a different rear drive ratio or to know your precise speed at any time. It is only accurate when your bike is vertical since your effective tire radius is reduced considerably at full lean due to the profile of your rear tire.

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Moto Guzzi archive/history contact

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If you've got a question that can only be answered by the Moto Guzzi historian/archivist, contact Gabriella Stropeni. Provide her with as much information as possible and photographs (especially of the VIN plate) are all the better.

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Polishing

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A highly polished bike looks great. But, I hate to polish. I've been polishing aluminum since I was a kid working on my Dad's semi truck wheels. Back then, all the work was by hand and it seemed to take forever. Today, I've discovered some techniques and methods that make the job a lot easier. Sure, it will cost you a little bit of money up front to invest in these items, but you'll always be glad you did. My philosophy is to purchase the best possible tools for the jobs I hate to do the most...it makes those jobs a lot more bearable.

Chrome

• 0000 steel wool
• Mothers Chrome Polish
• TurtleWax Chrome Polish; I've found this to be just a good as Mothers - at a cheaper price
• Competition Chemicals Blue Away (specifically for exhaust header pipes)

Polished aluminum

• Start with this great "how-to" article.
• Mothers Mag & Aluminum Polish (I use this for all hand polishing)
• Tripoli compound - the red stuff (I use this with the buffing wheel for the first pass). Eastwood sells this, as well as many other companies.
• White Rouge compound - the white stuff (I use this with the buffing wheel for the final polish). Eastwood sells this, as well as many other companies.
• I do all of the buffing I can using a 6" buffing wheel on my bench grinder (with the safety shields removed). A dedicated buffing station would be better, but I haven't invested the money into one yet.
• For polishing wheels, I use a 2" mini buff connected to a mandrel that is attached by a flexible shaft to my drill press running as close to 3600 rpm as it can. The 2" size make it easy to get between the spokes and polish the entire rim (1 1/2" would be too small, 2 1/2" would be too big). Eastwood sells the 2" mini buffing wheels, 1/4" mandrels, 1/8" mandrels, and the flexible shaft. A die grinder could be used in place of the drill press/flexible shaft. John Ulrich recommended this to me.

Rough cast aluminum

• Zep Alum E Mark Etheridge of Moto Guzzi Classics swears by this stuff. It is a little hard to come by, but he has begun selling it. Contact him directly.
• Eagle One Etching Mag Cleaner - etching solution "B" system (CAUTION: do not use on polished aluminum or you will have to polish it again). Cleans the engine and transmission cases very well. John Ulrich recommended this to me. You will need to use a wire brush to remove any corrosion, etc.
• Pat Galbraith recommended this: I usually use aluminum door cleaner on the engine cases and have always been asked how did I get them so clean. I normally found it at the local hardware store but its been so time since I bought a bottle. It comes in a gallon jug like milk comes in and you just apply it with a paint brush. If you decide to use this cleaner, ALWAYS clean from the bottom of the case and work your way up otherwise you will get streaks and be sure to do just small sections at a time.
• Timothy Bowser recommended this: Gel LimeAway works wonders. Buy it at a grocery store. Use a brush and just lather the case one side at a time. Don't let it sit too long. A few minutes is sufficient. This has got my Guzzi blocks exceptionally clean and didn't leave any residue.
• Tom Christian recommended this: Soak with a "paste" of water and Barkeepers friend (oxalic acid) and scrubbing, rinsing, repeat after I use zip strip to get the paint off. Lots of work, but it is looking better.
• If everything is apart, the engine and transmission cases can be treated with Sodium Silicate, baked in the oven. The product tends to remain in the pores, thus helping to prevent future stains. John Ulrich recommended this to me.
• 3M Scotch-Brite Heavy Duty Scour Pads (for inside the spokes on the wheel hubs). John Ulrich recommended this to me.

Paint

• Wizards Shine Master Polish & Breathable Sealant (removes swirls, shines)
• Meguiar's Gold Class Clear Coat Car Wax - liquid

Plastic

• Meguiar's PlastX Clear Plastic Cleaner and Polish

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Stainless fasteners

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Stainless fasteners really look nice - especially when polished. You could source all of your own stainless fasteners and polish them yourself. But, a less masochistic approach would be to purchase a set already polished. Stainless Cycle does just that, and at what I consider a very reasonable price. They do a great job of organizing and labeling all the fasteners so you know just where everything goes - no giant bag of bolts here. Their product and service is top notch and I recommend them without reservation.

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Thread locking compound recommendations

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Thread locking compounds made by companies such as Loctite® or Permatex® are wonderful products. For loops, only the generic red (high strength) and blue (medium strength) are needed. Moto Guzzis do not suffer from excesive vibration. The mechanical design and quality construction are such that parts simply do not vibrate loose and roll down the highway. This means that thread locking compounds are not needed for most fasteners. There are a few exceptions, however. Here is where I use thread locking compounds:

Red (high strength)

• Sludge trap plug in the crankshaft

Blue (medium strength)

• Flywheel to crankshaft bolts
• Crown wheel to crown wheel carrier bolts
• The special bolts that screw into the distributor housing on which the distributor cap retaining clips pivot.

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Throttle Rocker review

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I purchased the Throttle Rocker directly from Throttle Rocker. I purchased the kind that uses a Velcro strap (Throttle Rocker no longer sells the old version that is made from a coiled piece of plastic - due to patent infringement against the original CrampBuster design - see review on this page).

In short, the Throttle Rocker does not work. At least the kind with the Velcro strap that I tried. The device is intended to stay put so that it can be used as a lever to aid highway cruising and lessen the fatigue on the wrist. Instead, no matter how tight I fasten the strap, the Throttle Rocker just slips on the grips. Perhaps it would work if I had foam grips, or chose to attach it using some sort of adhesive, but I'm unwilling to do that. I like my stock grips and I want to keep them. Given my experience with the product, I cannot recommend it.

NOTE: The CrampBuster is an original, patented design. The "Throttle Rocker" was copied from the original CrampBuster design and infringed on the CrampBuster patent.

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Titles - titling an untitled loop

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It can sometimes be difficult to obtain or transfer a title for our old machines. Many times, the presence of the "Manufacturing Date" on the VIN tag is different than the date the vehicle was originally titled. Ninety-nine percent of the time, there is absolutely nothing awry with either the vehicle or the title. But, just try explaining that your Ambassador was manufactured in October of 1971 and not titled by the dealer until 1972 to the narrow-minded buffoons down at the DMV who've never even heard of a Moto Guzzi. Suffice to say there are many legitimate reasons for using the following techniques to acquire a title for a loop frame.

International Title Service

The following is my experience with International Title Service when I used them to obtain a title for my Ambassador.

I had great difficulty in acquiring a Florida title for my Ambassador back in February of 2005. Since the year stamped on the VIN tag did not match the year on the title (manufactured in 1971, originally titled in 1972), the state of Florida refused to title the Ambassador until I corrected the "error".

So, trying to be a good little boy, I sent the title back to the state of Minnesota to have them correct the mistake. But, they won't make the correction because they didn't originally title the vehicle. I need to talk with the previous state in which it was titled, Kansas.

Still trying to obey the law, I call Topeka and they refuse to correct the title unless they can physically inspect the motorcycle. Even then, they can't guarantee that they'll be able to correct the title because they may not be the original state that titled the vehicle (and they won't do the research on that issue until after they inspect the motorcycle and start their process).

Finally, I took Skip Kologiski's advice and send off for a bill of sale from International Title Service (ITS). A couple weeks and $75 later I've got my bill of sale from the great state of Alabama!!

This time when I walk into the Florida DMV office, they inspect, tag, and register the Ambassador and send off for a title...no problem.

I'm now in possession of two titles for a single vehicle. I'm pretty sure that's "a hanging offense" in some countries, but I'm taking my chances and living on the lamb.

Good grief...this country is turning me into a liar and a cheat just trying to obey the law.

State of Vermont Titles

I extracted this information from Bill Dudley on the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group. In Bill's own words:

Here's how to get titles for old bikes with no time wasting middle man:

1. Go to Vermont DMV web site. http://www.aot.state.vt.us/dmv/
2. Download forms and print them out. Here they are:
   Instructions
   Actual registration form
3. Fill out the form (just one side, call Montpelier if you need help)
4. Have local authorities (in NJ, it's the police) fill out a VIN verification form attesting that the VIN is what you say it is.
5. Write a check for title + sales tax. For our old Guzzi's, they will trust you to tell them the truth on how much you paid. For newer vehicles (1985+ ?) they use the Kelly Blue Book value so you can't get away with claiming you bought a 1990 Ducati for $200. KBB doesn't go back very far past 1990, so we're safe. Vermont sales tax is 6%.
6. Mail the completed forms and check to Vermont DMV.

In two weeks or so, you will receive a Vermont Registration and a green License plate in the mail. NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE! Basically, they are in it for the money, which is fine with me. Vermont does not title vehicles older than 15 years -- so our old bikes just get a reggie. Then, take your Vermont Reggie to your local DMV and tell them that you just brought the bike from VT and you want to title it in your state. In NJ, you now have a TITLE. (And NJ can be a real pain in the ass about this stuff.) I had to pay the sales tax difference, since NJ is 7%, I had to pay 1% sales tax plus the title charge to get my NJ titles.

I've just done this in NJ for a 79 Yamaha and an 84 Guzzi V65, and it has worked fine. (It helps if you get a DMV clerk who is not a jerk, however.)

If you have questions about the procedure, or how to fill out the form, just call the helpful DMV personnel in Montpelier and they will help you out. (802) 828-2000

This whole process will cost you WAY LESS than its-titles will charge you. Trust me.

This post is my revenge on its-titles for wasting my time and not being the least repentant about it when I called them up to complain. They couldn't give a rat's ass that they had wasted hours of my time filling out obsolete forms and waiting for them to just mail them back to me. Well, screw them!

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Tool kit

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Original tool kit

• 7 mm / 8 mm open-end wrench
• 10 mm / 11 mm open-end wrench
• 13 mm / 14 mm open-end wrench
• 17 mm / 19 mm open-end wrench
• 22 mm / 27 mm box-end wrench
• 5 mm allen / hex wrench
• Pliers
• Flat-tip screwdriver (special version used to turn the socket)
• Flat-tip screwdriver (standard)
• 19 mm / 21 mm / 22 mm socket (the screwdriver is used to turn this socket)
• Tappet adjusting tool (a small adjustable wrench would work, too)
• Feeler gauge in a small pouch
• Damper adjusting tool (for the rear shocks)
• Rider's handbook
• Tool bag (contained all of these tools)

Substitutes for the original tools

Original tools seem to get easily lost along the way and many machines no longer have them. Plus, original tool kits don't come up often on ebay and can be expensive. Here are things that can be used as substitutes:

• Metric stubby wrenches. Set includes 10 mm - 19 mm. Generally only the 10 mm, 11 mm, 13 mm, 14 mm, 17 mm, and 19 mm are needed. (Northern Tool)
• One 7 mm wrench. (Northern Tool)
• One 8 mm wrench. (Northern Tool)
• One 22 mm wrench which I cut to 7" in length. (Northern Tool)
• One 1 1/16" wrench which I cut to 7" in length - takes the place of a 27 mm wrench, which I could not locate. (Northern Tool)
• One 5 mm "L" shaped allen / hex wrench
• One 6" slip joint pliers (Northern Tool)
• One 3/16" x 3" slotted screwdriver, 6" in overall length (Northern Tool)
• One feeler gauge (Harbor Freight)
• One 13/16" spark plug socket. Amazingly, the box end of the 22 mm wrench fits the hex pattern at the end of the socket, so a ratchet is not required. (Northern Tool)
• One 6" adjustable wrench (Harbor Freight)

My tool kit

Here is what I always carry (covers both my Ambassador and my Quota):

• Original 7 mm / 8 mm open-end wrench
• Original 10 mm / 11 mm open-end wrench
• Original 13 mm / 14 mm open-end wrench
• Original 17 mm / 19 mm open-end wrench
• Original 22 mm / 24 mm box-end wrench (I've updated all of my axle nuts to require a 24 mm wrench)
• Original pliers
• Original tappet adjusting tool
• Original feeler gauge in a small pouch
• Ikon damper adjusting tool (for the rear shocks)
• Flat-tip / phillips reversible screwdriver
• One 6" adjustable wrench
• One 13/16" spark plug socket
• 2.5 mm, 3 mm, 4 mm, 5.5 mm, 6 mm, 8 mm, and 10 mm allen / hex wrench
• Two spare spark plugs
• One spare spark plug cap
• Spare ignition points and condenser
• One Swiss Army style pocket knife
• Three 8-1/2" long tire irons
• Several small pieces of split-open heater hose to protect the rim
• One valve core remover
• One valve core
• A few zip ties
• Five micro relays
• One spare oil pressure switch
• One tube of rubber cement
• Several inner tube patches and plugs
• One tire plug insertion tool
• One engine-pump tire inflator (the type that screws into the spark plug hole)
• One 12 volt test light
• One 20" long jumper wire
• One 6' length of 14 gauge electrical wire
• Numerous fuses, electrical wire terminals, hose clamps, replacement mechanical cable barrel ends, and spare nuts and bolts.
• Two spare tail light bulbs
• Several disposable paper towels
• Several disposable latex gloves

On longer trips I also carry:

• One 12 volt air compressor
• Spare inner tubes
• Extra cables for the clutch, throttle, and brake

Tool bags

I couldn't find ready-made, suitably sized tool bags, so I made my own to fit neatly inside each tool box. I made mine out of a pair of old blue jeans. Now that I have them, I can't believe how much more I can fit in the tool boxes. Plus, they are easy to fill and store inside each tool box. To keep them mostly waterproof, I enclose each in a gallon-sized zip lock bag. The pattern I used to create the tool bags is available below.

Follow-up: Since creating these tool bags, I find that I don't use them simply because they are not waterproof, take a long time to dry out, and keep moisture where I don't want it to be. I've gone back to using heavy plastic bags and they are working great. I've also heard that small plastic cosmetic bags and U.S. Army Surplus canteen covers work well, too.

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How I cut hardened tools

When building my tool kit, some of the tools I purchased were too long to fit in the tool boxes (7" is a good rule for overall length, although it is possible to angle longer pieces). Hardened tools can be very difficult and time consuming to cut with a hacksaw. In the past, I have even resorted to grinding them apart, but that tends to take a while and ends up rounding the corners of my grinding wheel.

I now use a metal cutting disc attached to my grinder. The disc is 1/8" thick and 7 1/4" in diameter with a 5/8" arbor hole. The maximum RPM is 8,600, so my 3,600 RPM grinder doesn't even come close. The disc does a great job and doesn't seem to wear too quickly. I cut 2 wrenches and 2 adjustable wrenches and only used a few millimeters - and it was quick and easy! Vermont American manufactures the disc I used (model number 28077).

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