Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police Dash and gauges
Parts, supplies & service
Table of contents
- Auxiliary gauge mounts
- Dash indicator lens placement - civilian dual gauge
- Dash indicator lens placement - civilian single gauge
- Dash indicator lens placement - typical police version
- Dash indicator lens replacements
- Dash indicator lights
- Dash indicator lights - Head light indicator or High beam indicator?
- Dash rubber isolator mounts
- Dash variations
- Dash wrinkle paint
- O-ring for sealing the dash indicator lens to the dash (MG# 90706076)
- O-ring for sealing the speedometer gauge to the dash (MG# 90706765)
- Gauge repair
- Gauge trim ring removal and installation
- Push / pull switches for police dashes
- Speedometer ratio
- Tachometer retaining bracket
- Tachometer terminal connections / wiring a tachometer
Auxiliary gauge mounts
Updated: 2008 Jun 09
Frank Granli's auxiliary mounts
Thanks to Frank Granli who sent this information to me in a private communication. In Franks's own words:
There is also a picture showing my extra instruments for monitoring oil pressure and volts. Both are 52mm instruments, placed in car exhaust pipe parts and clamped to the steering bar. Rather cheap and secure way of fitting those instruments, the problem is of course to make them watertight, but that could also be solved by choosing marine instruments :)
Photo courtesy of Frank Granli.
Photo courtesy of Frank Granli.
Ron Komoroski's auxiliary mounts
Thanks to Ron Komoroski who sent this information to me in a private communication. In Ron's own words:
When I was doing the resto on my bike I was still employed as a Senior Technician at an R&D Lab, working on Advanced Materials. As such I had access to all sorts of material stock. The mounts for the gages are made from two 3 in long sections cut from a section of aluminum pipe I found on one of the stock racks. It's dimensions are: OD 2.63 in wall thickness about .15 in. Whether it's a standard size, Where it came from I have no idea. The labs were originally set up in the early 60's by the Babcock & Wilcox Company for their Nuclear development. The length of pipe had some age on it when I used it in the mid 90's, so it may well have been a “drop” from some reactor component.
UPDATE: After writing the above I got curious & started looking through my collection of “sources” Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Company sell “round aluminum tubing 6061T6” in 21⁄4 in and 21⁄2 in ODs with 7 different IDs & wall thicknesses. It's sold by the foot. I've never dealt with this company, but I got the catalog from friend Clifford who has had good experience with them.
I polished the pipe sections and epoxied them to the front cutouts in my Police dash. I didn't want to drill holes in the dash casting in case the gages didn't work out & I wanted to go back to stock. The epoxy I used was a super-zoot “Meta-Set A4” by Smooth On we had at the lab. (these days I use “J-B WELD” , it looks, acts, & smells like exactly the same stuff).I wrapped the gage bodies with beer-can aluminum & aluminum tape so they are a snug fit in the pipe. I made a plate to bolt up to the two all-thread studs on the back of the gages, drilled holes in the plate, & cut 4 lengths of fine all-thread long enough to protrude from the bottom of the pipe sections when bolted into the holes. I cut two plates to go across the bottom of the pipe sections w/holes for the all-thread. Using nuts on both sides of the plates w/ a drop of thread locking compound has yielded a set-up that has been pretty much trouble free for about 13 years now. I have always run a fairing, so the bottom of the pipe sections are hidden & don't have to be pretty.
The gage needles do “dance” from the bikes' vibes, & I've had to replace each gage once due to failure over the years/miles. The oil pressure gage is mechanical. I cut, drilled, tapped, threaded & silver soldered a “T” fixture that screws into the block & supplies a feed to the gage an allows me to keep the idiot light sender. The pressure line to the gage is plastic/teflon?, It has failed at the connection to the “T” hose connection. Oil shot out from under the tank & made quite a mess. I ran the replacement pressure hose inside some tygon tubing to help damp vibration, & I carry an extra tube fitting with the hose melted closed to put on the “T” for emergency repair if it ever happens again. I've got a set of high-bux VDO gages on the bench to install the next time I have the fairing off, I'm hoping they'll be more stable than the el-cheap-o Sunpros I've been using. The hot set-up would be gages filled with liquid silicon for vibration damping, but I've never found a silicon filled 2 in gauge, it's only used in the larger sizes. Readings? w/about 45K on the motor rebuild, the oil pressure readings I get are: 60 PSI cold, 50 hot above 1000 RPM & 20 cold 15 hot at idle. I'm running the awesome Greg Field alternator & get a 14 volt reading as soon as the RPMs come off idle. If you zoom in on the picture & are curious about the black box between the gages on the front of the dash housing it is a turn signal beeper.
Photo courtesy of Ron Komoroski.
Photo courtesy of Ron Komoroski.
Photo courtesy of Ron Komoroski.
Dash indicator lens placement - civilian dual gauge
Updated: 2010 Sep 20
| Position of light from left to right | ||
|---|---|---|
| Top row | “H” - High Beam - Red light | “N” - Neutral - Amber light |
| Bottom row | “G” - Generator Warning Light - Red light | “O” - Oil Pressure Warning - Red light |
Dash indicator lens placement - civilian single gauge
Updated: 2010 Sep 20
| Position of light from left to right | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| “Lights” - High Beam - Red light | “Dynamo” - Generator Warning Light - Red light | “Idle” - Neutral - Amber light | “Oil” - Oil Pressure Warning - Red light |
Dash indicator lens placement - typical police version
Updated: 2010 Sep 20
| Position of light or switch from left to right | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Top row | High Beam - Blue or Red light | Generator Warning Light - Red light | Neutral - Amber light | Oil Pressure Warning - Red light | ||||
| Middle row | Left Turn Signal / Turn Indicator - Blue or Green | Courtesy Light (Spotlights) - Red or Blue | Push/Pull Switch - kill switch | Right Turn Signal / Turn Indicator - Blue or Green | ||||
| Bottom row | Push/Pull Switch - Windshield map light | Toggle Switch - Flashers | ||||||
Dash indicator lens replacements
Updated: 2012 Feb 03
Cycle Garden offers some very nice reproduction lenses. MG Cycle also offers some (part number MG115). Slightly different than original, but pretty close to original.
Original lenses
The following colors were available and were provided complete with the bulb holder.
- MG# 10744900: Amber (dual terminal bulb holder with two 6.35 mm male spade terminals)
- MG# 10744901: Green (believed to be a single terminal bulb holder with 6.35 mm male spade terminal)
- MG# 10744902: Red (dual terminal bulb holder with two 6.35 mm male spade terminals)
- MG# 10744903: Blue (believed to be a single terminal bulb holder with 6.35 mm male spade terminal)
I cannot locate this part number in any of my spare parts catalogs - MG# 13744901: Green (believed to be a single terminal bulb holder with 4 mm female bullet terminal)
- MG# 13744920: Red (single terminal bulb holder with 4 mm female bullet terminal)
- MG# 13744943: Red (believed to be a single terminal bulb holder with 6.35 mm male spade terminal)
Moto Guzzi later referenced the lenses seperately:
- MG# 10754900: Amber (lens only)
- MG# 10754901: Green (lens only)
- MG# 10754902: Red (lens only)
- MG# 10754903: Blue (lens only)
I cannot locate this part number in any of my spare parts catalogs
Alternative 1
Thanks to Paul Linn who posted this information on the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group.
- Pioneer Breaker & Control Supply part number PLI-7T-RS-24A-12VDC (amber), 7 mm (not sure if that is the hole size or the bezel size)
- Pioneer Breaker & Control Supply part number PLI-7T-RS-24G-12VDC (green), 7 mm (not sure if that is the hole size or the bezel size)
- Pioneer Breaker & Control Supply part number PLI-7T-RS-24R-12VDC (red), 7 mm (not sure if that is the hole size or the bezel size)
Alternative 2
Thanks to Mike Jones who posted this information on the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group.
- Radio Shack model 276-272 (orange LED), requires 9⁄32 in mounting hole
- Radio Shack model 276-271 (green LED), requires 9⁄32 in mounting hole
- Radio Shack model 276-270 (red LED), requires 9⁄32 in mounting hole
John Allen part 1
Thanks to John Allen who posted this information on the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group.
I wanted to share with everybody my fix for Ambassador police dash lights. I am missing 3 of the plastic tops on my bike. I'm working on crafting new acrylic tops for my original lights and am having some good success but that is another story. I ordered a set of Radio Shack LED's listed on Gregory Bender's web site as a suggestion by Mike Jones as an interm solution. What the led is missing is a bezel to hold them to the dash. I found an easy low cost solution that looks good. A 1⁄4 in aluminum rivet nut fits perfectly, holds an o-ring, and the led fits inside perfectly. I've posted pictures of the finished aluminum bezel and led light assembly. The album is “Ambassador dash light bezels.”
The materials for each light are:
- One Radio shack Green LED #276-0271 (or orange or red) (USD $1.99)
- One 1⁄4 in stainless steel washer (USD $0.20)
- One 1⁄4 in × 20 Aluminum Rivet Nut (USD $0.52)
- One 5⁄16 in ID × 7⁄16 in OD rubber O-ring (USD $0.14)
Take the rivet nut and lightly sand the top to remove surface machining marks. I start with 320 grit and end at 800 grit. Next I use an aluminum polish and quickly polish the top and sides. Slide the O-ring over the rivet nut and stick it into the top of the dash. Mark the bottom of the rivet nut flush or a little shorter with the underside of the dash, pull it out and cut it off with a hack saw. Stick the led into the bezel, I'm going to seal the led to the bezel with a dab of silicone but in the pictures I haven't done it yet. Pop the assembly into the dash, put the stainless washer on the underside and tighten it down with the nut and washer that came with the led. Wire it in. I don't know if anyone has posted this type of solution before as I'm new to the loop group but hopefully it will help someone facing the same dilemma. Total cost of about USD $3.00 a light and a little effort. I like the look of aluminum on aluminum. I'm not sure how the led's will hold up to UV rays or long term use.
As a side note I have been experimenting with using 3⁄8 in cast acrylic rod to make replacement lenes for the original lights. I posted a picture of what I made so far, the clear lenses are mine next to the original colored lenses. I can get clear 3⁄8 in acrylic rod but not colored (only 1⁄2 in rod in color). If I had a metal lathe I would probably try and turn some colored rod down to fit. The 3⁄8 in rod is almost perfect for the diameter, it needs a little sanding to fit inside the old bezel. I've been heat polishing the lenses but I am not happy with the actual finish. I've been spinning the rod on a wood lathe to sand the tops and when I get a few more I'm going to drill the bottom out and then try to Rit dye a few and see if the color will take. Just thought I would throw that out there if anyone else wanted to experiment with making lenses. I will keep everyone posted.
Complete assembly with full size rivet. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Complete assembly with full size rivet. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Complete assembly with full size rivet. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Complete assembly with full size rivet. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Complete assembly with full size rivet. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Complete assembly with full size rivet. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Dropped into dash, not tightened down. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Dropped into dash, not tightened down. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Dropped into dash, not tightened down. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Loose assemblies. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Loose assemblies. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Flush cut rivet underside. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Flush cut rivet underside. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Acrylic rod clear lens. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Acrylic rod clear lens. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Acrylic rod clear lens. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Acrylic rod clear lens. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Tightened down. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Tightened down. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Tightened down. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Back side tightened down. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Back side tightened down. Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
John Allen part 2
John sent me an update via email.
I was talking to Steve Odell from the loop list about lenses and he had made some with blue and green using cast acrylic rod turned down from 1⁄2 in diameter by a friend. He sent me a couple pieces, one blue and one green, to mess around with and some advice on how to work the material. I picked up a 4 ft stick of red and a 4 ft stick of amber as that is the smallest lengths you can get reasonably cheap (USD $22.00 for a 4 ft piece, so just two colors is USD $55.00 with shipping). I only used about two inches off a 6 in piece so I have a lot extra. In fact I just sent Steve a 6 in piece of red and orange so he can have a full set.
It is actually easy to make once you figure out the best steps.
- I use a small metal lathe with a really sharp (I hand diamond lapped it) pointed parting tool bit at 2000 RPM and turn the 1⁄2 in rod to .405 in diameter. I turn about a 3 in length of material right off the chuck and use a live center on the other end to keep the acrylic from flexing.
- Then I use sand paper at 120, 180, 220, 320 while spinning the material on the lathe to clean up the cut marks. 320 grit seems to be the magic number, after that I just polish it up on a homemade buffing wheel setup using white rouge. Sanding and buffing the acrylic brings the rod diameter down to about .390 in - .395 in for the finished diameter of the lens.
- I then take the rod out of the lathe and sand the end square to get rid of the live center hole, then hand sand the end on a piece of 320 grit paper laying flat on the table (about 10 seconds), then polish the end on the buffing wheel. This polished end will be the bottom of the lens and it needs to be polished for the light to get through. It is easier to polish now on the end of the stick rather than after you cut it off!
- Then I chuck the rod back into the lathe, just sticking the end out about an inch and neck the diameter down to fit the lens hole and just deep enough to seat the lens. It seems to vary on width and depth so I did each one individually. The diameter isn't cut much, just to about .380 in or so. This gives a little overlap or shoulder on the top of the lens and it does look better. Kind of covers the top lip of the bezel and since the bezels vary in size diameter wise it is the best way to make them all the same as the shoulder is easy to cut and doesn't need to be finished.
- I then cut the lens off at .405 in long with a hack saw and epoxy it into the bezel with 5 minute epoxy being careful to only epoxy the perimeter inside the bezel. You don't want epoxy over the bottom of the lens as it will obscure light.
- Let the epoxy set and then I shape the top with a vice mounted variable speed grinder with 320 grit sandpaper, then polish on the wheel. I screw the bezel onto a light housing so you can hold the damn thing while shaping and polishing.
I can turn one lens out in about 10 minutes with a piece of acrylic already turned down and polished minus the time it takes for the epoxy to dry. Turning down a piece of acrylic and polishing it takes about 15 minutes. You really only use about an inch or so of material for two lights! The lenses are not perfect but look good. They have a little bit of a wave in the bevel edge but they polish so well you can't tell. How many people are going to be looking that closely at some dash lights? The original lenses are round but I made these with a flat top and a slight bevel edge. I had a hard time making a uniformed round top so I just beveled the edges and left a flat top. I guess if somebody was so inclined they could make a jig over a sanding table and every lens would be very uniform. Only a crazy Guzzi fanatic would really know the difference! Watch, I'll be at a bike ride and somebody will comment on the lenses that they aren't original!
Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Replacement dash indicator lights for Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, 850 California Police.
Photo courtesy of John Allen.
Dash indicator lights
Updated: 2011 Nov 02
Moto Guzzi used two different styles of dash indicator light sockets. The earliest style had a metal body and accepted a single bullet terminal; depending on the body of the bulb socket to complete the circuit. The later style had a plastic body and accepted two female spade terminals, one for each circuit. If you are looking to replace the sockets, you'll want to obtain the appropriate ones for your application. Here is a breakdown…
Single gauge civilian dash
Five light sockets are required:
- Speedometer illumination: single terminal socket
- Headlight high beam indicator: single terminal socket
- Generator charging indicator: single terminal socket
- Neutral indicator: single terminal socket
- Oil pressure indicator: single terminal socket
Dual gauge civilian dash
Six light sockets are required:
- Speedometer illumination: single terminal socket
- Tachometer illumination: single terminal socket
- Headlight high beam indicator: single terminal socket
- Generator charging indicator: dual terminal socket
- Neutral indicator: dual terminal socket
- Oil pressure indicator: dual terminal socket
Single gauge police dash
Eight light sockets are (generally) required:
- Speedometer illumination: single terminal socket
- Left turn signal indicator: single terminal socket
- Right turn signal indicator: single terminal socket
- Left push pull switch indicator: single terminal socket
- Headlight high beam indicator: single terminal socket
- Generator charging indicator: dual terminal socket
- Neutral indicator: dual terminal socket
- Oil pressure indicator: dual terminal socket
Photo courtesy of Gregory Bender.
Photo courtesy of Gregory Bender.
Photo courtesy of Gregory Bender.
Photo courtesy of Gregory Bender.
Photo courtesy of Gregory Bender.
Dash indicator lights - Head light indicator or High beam indicator?
Updated: 2009 Jul 22
Thanks to Patrick Hayes, Carl Allison, Charlie Mullendore of Antietam Classic Cycle, and Carl Krall for investigating this information via private communications with me and for posting the information on the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group.
Patrick Hayes' original post after initial investigation with Carl Allison, Charlie Mullendore, and Gregory Bender
Carl Allison of Oklahoma has produced some lovely, color-coded wire diagram plans for most Guzzi models. These plans are hosted in duplicate at Gregory Bender's “this old tractor” site and also on Guzzitech.com. They are a very handy aid for any electrical diagnostic or modification work.
(CAUTION: Never look at the plans you might find on a “pacbell” server. Carl has been off that account for many years. He can't update or edit or delete those files. Pacbell refuses to take them down or give him access to take them down. They are obsolete but still show up in net searches.)
I have discovered a few anomalies in some of the plans and have been working with Carl to perfect and update the color plans. We have discovered something in the Loopframe Series that seems VERY WRONG in electro/mechanical design and we need further input from end users. To paraphrase Capt. Louis Renault in Casablanca, I'm shocked to hear that there are errors in Guzzi wire plan design! Shocked I tell you!
We are referring to 750 and 850 loopframes. Please look at your parts if you happen to have them opened up. Please look at any library wire diagrams if your bike is intact. Please look at the fuse panel inside the headlamp housing which contains 9 fuses.
Fuse #3 gets a RED power feed wire coming from the ignition switch. That power comes from the battery, through the key switch and into the fuse panel without any fused protection. The fuse block has an internal bridge structure on its back side which connects the tops of all of the fuses from #3 through to #7. So, all five of those “ganged” fuse positions are HOT on the top side whenever the key switch is on.
Now to the mystery. The TOP of Fuse #4 has a BLUE/BLACK wire which feeds power to the ignition coil. The TOP of Fuse #5 has a similar BLUE/BLACK wire which feeds power to the starter button and starter relay circuit. Both of these feed positions on the TOP of the fuse plate are hot as soon as the key is turned on. AND THEY ARE BOTH NOT PROTECTED BY DOWNSTREAM FUSES!!!!! Any short circuit in either of those wires will result in some serious melting somewhere.
If you have any further information or comment about these two circuits, we'd like to hear it so that the plans can be corrected. If there is some logical electrical reason to design this way, we'd like to hear that so that we know the plans are accurate. We have seen several Loopframe plan variants in books by several publishers. They all seem to agree in this wire anomaly. It just doesn't make good engineering sense. But, if that is truly the way Guzzi designed it, then we want to reaffirm that design.
Marty Ray's input on the use of unfused circuits (Marty sent this to me via a private communication)
You make a big point about unfused circuits in the ignition area, I wanted to point out that this style of wiring is common in older school electrical systems, where typically only the branch accessory circuits are fused. Common unfused circuitry in older vehicles are: lamps, horn, ignition, dynamo, control box. Feel free to rewire as you see fit, but I don't think Guzzi was too far out of normal practice for the time. Perhaps the thinking was to only fuse circuits that were less critical to operation.
Carl Krall's reply to Patrick Hayes
I did notice that the high beam indicator wire is in the wrong place on the diagram I downloaded. If placed where the diagram shows, it is a headlight indicator. Needs to go over to the Siamesed connection off the high beam wire.
Will go have a look at those wires you mention, seems like there is ample room for them to be off the bottom row. Some of my fuses aren't protecting anything at all, and I'm beginning to understand why.
Gregory Bender's reply to Carl Krall
There is indeed some confusion as to what that indicator light is really supposed to indicate.
I've seen original wiring diagrams that show both scenarios: as a “lights are on” indicator AND as a “high beam” indicator.
The labels on the dash and/or gauges don't help matters, either. The single gauge speedometer uses a “lights” label (perhaps to indicate “lights are on” ) whereas the civilian 2-gauge dash uses an “H” label (perhaps to indicate “high beam” ).
Then, there is my personal preference to use that indicator light as a “turn signals are flashing” indicator (also known as a “hey dummy, turn off your turn signals before someone believes you and does a lefty in front of you and you earn the nickname ‘T-bone' for a very good reason” indicator).
Oh well…I bet Guzzi put them in a variety of configurations leaving the factory. At least they are easily changed to indicate whatever a person wants :>
Patrick Hayes's reply to Carl Krall
I'm looking at the 750 CIVILIAN Ambassador USA wire plan. I see what you refer to. Actually, from the plan and from the descriptive text, Guzzi apparently never intended it as a HIGH BEAM indicator on the Civilian bike, but merely as a HEADLIGHTS ON indicator. How odd! Likely some Italian DOT regulation held over from cars. One would think that in the middle of the night you would be able to tell if your headlights were on or not without the guidance of a little red idiot light! None the less, since Guzzi calls it a “LIGHTS INDICATOR” , the diagram is correct and the wire is in the correct (but not best) position.
As you advise, it would be quite easy to relocate the wire so that the indicator bulb only glows when the HIGH BEAM is ON, a much more logical function. The 750 POLICE Ambassador wire plan does relocate this wire as you have suggested so that it does become a true HIGH BEAM indicator and they do call it a HIGH BEAM indicator in the text.
For anyone wishing to make this modification to a Civilian Ambassador, I have posted a simple little diagram here:
Photo courtesy of Patrick Hayes.
If your wiring is stock, you will have a YELLOW/BLACK wire positioned as I have shown. I can't do BI-COLOR lines, so I only show it here in YELLOW. If you wish to alter for use as a HIGH BEAM indicator as described, just remove this wire from the connector panel in the base of your headlamp housing and relocate it to the new position as I have shown in RED. Your wire colors won't change, I am only using these colors for position contrast.
With permission, here also is a nice, clear photograph of the headlamp housing innards from Charlie Mullendore.
Photo courtesy of Patrick Hayes.
Note here that Guzzi has included color-coded stickers on the junction block. Conveniently, they show two YELLOW/BLACK positions even though the harness has only one YELLOW/BLACK wire. The left side YELLOW/BLACK position results in a “lights on” indicator. The right side YELLOW/BLACK position results in a “high beam” indicator.
Patrick Hayes' further investigation into the Italian language
Last week we were looking at some oddities on the loopframe wire diagrams. The wire plan includes one YELLOW/BLACK wire within the headlamp housing which ignites a warning light on the dash panel. The junction block in the headlamp includes TWO possible positions for this wire. On the Civilian bikes, the wire is factory installed in the “I” position and the warning light ignites whenever any headlamp in on. On the Police bikes, the wire is factory installed in the “A” position and the warning light ignites only when the HIGH BEAM is on.
So, what do the “I” and “A” positions mean in the original Italian?
Learned a new word this week. The “I” is for Iluminazione or lighting or lighting system. The “A” is for Abbagliante (ahb-baal-YON-tay). Means dazzling or brilliant and hence High Beam in vehicle applications.
See here for clarification:
Photo courtesy of Patrick Hayes.
No reason why any rewire project shouldn't move to the “A” position for a more logical application.
Dash rubber isolator mounts
Updated: 2008 Dec 20
Thanks to Charlie Mullendore of Antietam Classic Cycle for sending me this information in a private email. In Charlie's own words:
I sourced the civilian dual-gauge dash rubber isolators from McMaster-Carr for USD $1.49 each. Part no. 9225K63. Fit perfectly.
Dash variations
Updated: 2011 Jan 22
Numerous dash variations were created for the loop frames. Here is what is out there:
Civilian dashes
| Part number | MG# 12501500 Yes, this is the same part number as the dash on the right. Guzzi changed the part but did not change the number. |
MG# 12501500 Yes, this is the same part number as the dash on the left. Guzzi changed the part but did not change the number. |
MG# 13501500 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Pictures |
 Top view. The speedometer shown is not correct for this dash. It would have been originally fitted to Eldorado police dashes.  This is the correct speedometer for this dash. Note the odd numbering (10, 30, 50, etc). Photo courtesy of Charles Hamer. |
 Top view. This is the correct speedometer for this dash. Note the even numbering (20, 40, 60, etc). The ignition switch is not correct.  Doubtful if additional holes are factory. Photo courtesy of David Ramby. |
 Top view. These are the correct gauges, indicator lights, and ignition switch, including placement. |
| Number of instruments | 1 | 1 | 2 |
| Windshield cut-outs | No | No | No |
| Ignition switch hole | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Mounting holes | 2 fore and 2 aft | 2 fore and 2 aft | 2 fore and 2 aft |
| Holes for indicator lights | 0 | 0 | 4 |
| Lip height | Lip for the speedometer is very short - comes up just higher than the ignition switch platform | Lip for the speedometer is a little taller - comes up about 3⁄8 in higher than the ignition switch platform | N/A |
| Usage | V7 / V700 models | Early Ambassador models | Ambassador and all Eldorado models |
Police dashes
| Part number | MG# 12501540 | MG# 13501540 | unknown | MG# 13501541 Yes, this is the same part number as the dashes on the right. Guzzi changed the part but did not change the number. |
MG# 13501541 Yes, this is the same part number as the dashes on the right and left. Guzzi changed the part but did not change the number. |
MG# 13501541 Yes, this is the same part number as the dashes on the left. Guzzi changed the part but did not change the number. |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pictures |
 Top view  Top view  Front view  Front view  Left view  Right view  Photo courtesy of Paul Linn.  Photo courtesy of Paul Linn.  Photo courtesy of Paul Linn. |
 Photo courtesy of Greg Barratt, Stainless Cycle.  Photo courtesy of Greg Barratt, Stainless Cycle.  Photo courtesy of Greg Barratt, Stainless Cycle.  Photo courtesy of Greg Barratt, Stainless Cycle.    |
 Top view  Ear view |
No photo yet available. The spare parts catalog shows this without windshield bracket cut outs. |
 Top view  Ear view  Photo courtesy of Keith Ruff.  Photo courtesy of Keith Ruff.  Photo courtesy of Kim Schick. |
 Photo courtesy of David Ramby.  Top view |
| Number of instruments | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Windshield cut-outs | No | Yes | No | No | Yes | Yes |
| Ignition switch hole | Yes | Yes | Maybe - photo is unclear, but it appears to have a non-factory ignition switch hole | No | No | No |
| Trip meter reset hole | No | No | No | No | No | Yes |
| Mounting holes | 2 fore and 2 aft + 2 additional holes inside the foremost holes | 2 fore and 2 aft + 2 additional holes inside the foremost holes | 2 fore and 2 aft | 2 fore and 2 aft | 2 fore and 2 aft | 2 fore and 2 aft |
| Holes for indicator lights | 0 | 0 | 5 - photo is unclear, but it appears to have a non-factory hole on the left side | 10 | 10 | 10 |
| Additional mounting box | Yes, attaches to the front of the dash with four bolts | Yes, attaches to the front of the dash with four bolts | No | No | No | No |
| Usage | Very rare; probably most common on V7 / V700 and Ambassador models. | Very rare; probably most common on Eldorado models. | Very rare; probably most common on V7 / V700 and Ambassador models. | More common; probably most common on Eldorado models. | More common; probably most common on Eldorado models. | More common; probably most common on Eldorado models. |
Dash wrinkle paint
Updated: 2009 Jul 22
Application technique
Thanks to Marty Ray for sending me this information via email. In Marty's own words:
This one relates to the use of wrinkle finish, I have experience applying this to both loop frame dashes and the much larger dash assembly from early MGB cars. The following tips should help people:
- Yes, practice on some other item first to get the feel, especially for the heat lamp tip part below.
- Shake the paint really really well. Take your time. warm the paint and the part, use the sun, heat lamp, or heat gun.
- Apply two relatively thick coats, but try not to get it to run of course.
- Leaving the part to dry in the hot sun can help, but what's best is to create and control the wrinkling process using heat from a non-blowing heat source. This way you don't have to wait forever to see the wrinkles form, and you can add extra heat to areas that don't wrinkle well enough initially.
- I don't think applying a heat gun, with air blowing out of it, is a good plan at all.
- What I always do is to use a heat lamp, you can simply use the type of inexpensive halogen work light sold in auto parts stores. I like to use a small floor lamp rather than a large pole mounted one, you need one that you can hold in your hand and move around easily. I'm sure that more expensive types of lamps could be used as well. The one I use has a rather long thin type of bulb, this bulb cannot be touched with your fingers when you install it, the oil from your fingers will potentially cause the bulb to explode when it gets hot. This type of lamp produces copious heat, but of a gentle nature.
- Patiently, patiently, at a distance of about 4 in - 6 in or so, move the heat lamp over the surface of the painted part, to encourage the wrinkle to form. Try to go over the whole part evenly, as you are first doing this, in order to get the best even matching wrinkle finish. The wrinkle will form slowly at first, but can be accelerated by applying more heat. You'll find that you can judge how much heat to add to an area as you cruise around with the heat lamp. Areas that at first seem to wrinkle too little, can be made to wrinkle better, and match the other areas, by the addition of extra heat. On the other hand, if you spend too much time too early in one spot, you'll likely encourage unevenness.
Try this, you'll like it. You'll probably not want to go back to leaving the wrinkle to time and chance again.
Dupli-Color truck bed liner
Thanks to Mark Etheridge of Moto Guzzi Classics for providing the following information on the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group. In Mark's own words:
Dupli-Color truck bed coating works very well on dashes, starters, and breather boxes. Good stuff.
Eastwood Wrinkle Black
Thanks to Charlie Mullendore of Antietam Classic Cycle for providing the following information on the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group. In Charlie's own words:
I've used Eastwood's wrinkle black (item number 10014 Z) with good results. A few things that help (at least with the Eastwood product):
- very warm part (warm on a wood stove, with a heat gun, etc.)
- warm paint (a little above ambient temp)
- practice on an old part first
Still tricky to get it right. Directions say two heavy coats. Not easy to get heavy coats without runs, the warm part and paint help it “flash off” before it has a chance to run. Still, you don't know how well you've done until 12-18 hours later…
Krylon Wrinkle Finish #3370
Thanks to Charles Hamer for sending the following information to me in a private email.
Here is another great product for the texture of civilian dashboards: “Wrinkle Finish” made by Krylon #3370 in black, I found mine at Advance Auto Parts.
I tested that finish on a old dashboards and it exactly, I really mean “exactly” reproduces the OEM finish, I was amazed, no differences. The only thing is it may be a little glossy, but I took care of that with spraying lightly some Ultra-Flat Black.
The important thing is to spray a thick layer while letting it dry from a heat source; I left mine in the sun and even better, covered it with a transparent plastic container to make a green-house effect, the wrinkle was perfect. They sometimes suggest using a heat gun, but not sure if it'll dry too quick and ruin the perfect finish. Really great stuff.
O-ring for sealing the dash indicator lens to the dash (MG# 90706076)
Updated: 2012 Feb 03
The size of the O-ring (MG# 90706076) used to seal the dash indicator lens to the dash is approximately 8 mm ID × 1.8 mm wide. Viton O-rings are best, but Buna-N work just fine and are a lot cheaper. Make sure to purchase an O-ring that is sufficiently soft…something with a Shore Durometer (A Scale) = 70 is great.
McMaster-Carr item number 93125K23 (7.8 mm ID × 1.9 mm wide) will work well.
Here is one place where the inch equivalent will work perfectly fine. Just use the Dash size -011 with a Shore Durometer (A Scale) = 70. These are 0.301 in ID × 0.070 in Thick and will work perfectly fine. McMaster-Carr item number 9452K19 works great.
O-ring for sealing the speedometer gauge to the dash (MG# 90706765)
Updated: 2010 Jul 20
On single gauge dash panels, there is an O-ring (MG# 90706765) between the dash and the gauge. When I removed the gauge from my dash, the O-ring disintegrated. I found a replacement at my local home center (Menards). I went over to the plumping section and found a set of O-rings made for the large filters on reverse osmosis water filtration systems. They came in a package of four O-rings (two black and two blue). The black O-ring was a little small, but easily stretched around the gauge.
Gauge repair
Updated: 2011 Jun 20
There are a number of companies that rebuild old instruments such as speedometers, tachometers, etc. I have not used any of these, but I thought I would provide references, nonetheless.
- Alpha Instruments - Toronto, Canada - (416) 736-4267 ask for Ted
Note: I've heard from one customer who was less than completely satisfied with Alpha Instruments. - APT Instruments International, Inc.
- Bob's Speedometer
- Joel Levine Company
Thanks to Mike Tiberio who posted this information on the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group.
Note: I've heard from one customer who was less than completely satisfied with Joel Levine Company. - Nisonger Automotive
It has been reported that Nisonger does not repair Veglia gauges. - North Hollywood Speedometer & Clock Co.
I've heard numerous positive reports about North Hollywood Speedometer. - Oliver Bienz - 15670 Roper Ave., White Rock, BC. V4B 2G8, Canada - (604) 535-6221
- Lionel Otto Instruments - 124 Evans Road, Salisbury Queensland 4107, Australia - phone: 3277 3888 (STD: 07 - International Dial: +61 7)
- Overseas Speedometer and Instrument Service
- Palo Alto Speedometer
Note: I've heard of several reports that service has gotten very slow and that returns due to any number of problems is a regular occurrence.
Gauge trim ring removal and installation
Updated: 2011 May 09
Jim Carey's technique
I extracted this information from Jim Carey off of the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group. In Jim's own words:
I tackled tearing down and rebuilding my rusty instruments, 1st sourcing reproduction chrome bezel rubber gaskets and glass lenses. I pried apart the old chrome bezel with a very fine flat blade screwdriver, then dismantled the instruments and had the bodies powder coated wrinkle black. The insides of the bodies where then sprayed flat white.
For attaching the bezels I took two small squares of 1⁄2 in thick HPDE plastic (the stuff hockey boards are made of - you could use hardboard just as easy) and using a circle scribe cutter made a circle the same size as the OD of the chrome bezel. Then a circle insert from 1⁄2 in masonite was dropped into the cut out plastic section and glued to the square base. I shimmed between the two squares of plastic to get the depth of the jig the exact thickness to fold the bezel over, used bolts to joint the two squares together. Then I placed a thick bead of black silicone rubber around the outer lip of the circle and placed a sheet of clear sandwich wrap over the wet silicone and pressed an old bezel into the silicone and let it set overnight. This makes an exact soft face for the chrome bezel to rest in. I made a compression clamp to press the gauge body in place. Wrapped the finished body in painter tape and set a hose clamp around the body to protect it while I tapped the chrome ring over. I am happy to say it works great!
Gauge trim installation.Photo courtesy of Jim Carey.
Gauge trim installation.Photo courtesy of Jim Carey.
Gauge trim installation.Photo courtesy of Jim Carey.
Gauge trim installation.Photo courtesy of Jim Carey.
Gauge trim installation.Photo courtesy of Jim Carey.
Gauge trim installation.Photo courtesy of Jim Carey.
Gauge trim installation.Photo courtesy of Jim Carey.
Gauge trim installation.Photo courtesy of Jim Carey.
Gauge trim installation.Photo courtesy of Jim Carey.
Danilo Gurovic's technique
I extracted this information from Danilo Gurovic off of the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group. In Danilo's own words:
To get the chrome retaining rings off the Veglia instruments, just get a nice #00 screw driver and a small hammer or mallet. Find a soft work surface, and gently rap the screwdriver as it's resting flat along the chrome on the side of the ring. Gentle persuasion and about 15 minutes yields the ring, unmolested, in your hands.
To get the nice black face back, get some “Black Chrome” and a few Q-tips, and gently clean the face of the instrument with it. Looks like new in about 30 minutes. Make sure you wipe the excess. The rubber gasket holding the glass and items is probably shot -- I used black rubber goop. I also painted the outer retaining ring satin black, and had new glass made. Looks like new.
Rich Arimoto's technique
I extracted this information from Rich Arimoto off of the Yahoo! Loopframe_Guzzi news group. In Rich's own words:
OK, I got the Ambobber's broken speedo's bezel off without damaging it too badly, then swapped out the guts and was faced with putting the bezel back on. How to do this?
I'd put a (3 in) hose clamp around the bezel to keep it from splitting when I removed the bezel, so I'm thinking that I might be able to use a hose clamp to my advantage when putting it back on.
I decided to make a tool to re-attach the bezel. Yes, a screwdriver or something else would work, but a slip could scratch the paint and I thought it would be hard to get the edge even. To make the tool, I bent a large washer to roughly match the bend in the hose clamp, cut it in half and welded it to a short piece of rod-stock. Ground it to where I thought it would work. Took about a 1⁄2 hour to make the tool.
To crimp the bezel, you first put some masking tape around its edge and then attach the hose clamp. Slip the tool over the hose clamp and tap it with a hammer to bend the edge of the bezel down. The hose clamp keeps the working edge of the tool right on the part of the bezel you want to bend--it's just about impossible for the crimper to slip. It worked great, the edge comes out quite even (I repositioned the hose clamp several times). Not perfect, but I'm very satisfied with the way it all worked out.
While the speedo was out, I decided to re-finish the dash, which had some crappily applied wrinkle paint. I used some pickup truck bedliner spray (Mark Etheridge of Moto Guzzi Classics recommended this as a good finish), and that really improved the appearance of the dash.
The special tool for crimping the ring back onto the gauge.Photo courtesy of Rich Arimoto.
The crimper is used in conjunction with the hose clamp.Photo courtesy of Rich Arimoto.
Push / pull switches for police dashes
Updated: 2011 Apr 26
Thanks to Charlie Mullendore of Antietam Classic Cycle for sending me this information in a private email. In Charlie's own words:
Whilst browsing the local Tractor Supply Co. store today, I spied a very good facsimile of the o.e. Guzzi police push/pull switch. Cheap enough (USD $4.29) that I bought one to add to my stash of miscellaneous switches. Made by Dorman/Conduct-Tite, part no. 85933, Made in China (of course!). Also available at AutoZone.
Speedometer ratio
Updated: 2012 May 01
I pulled this data off of a civilian speedometer from a single instrument dash as well as a civilian speedometer from a dual instrument dash.
- The ratio is 61:2362
- Or, 1610 revolutions = 1 mile
Tachometer retaining bracket
Updated: 2007 Jul 05
On dual gauge dashes, the tachometer is retained by two nuts that secure a specially shaped bracket in place. If you've lost your bracket, use the following pattern to make one yourself.
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Tachometer terminal connections / wiring a tachometer
Updated: 2009 Apr 23
There are three terminals on the back of the tachometer: one connects to the positive terminal on the coil, one connects to the negative terminal on the coil, and one connects to ground. The back of the tach is engraved near each terminal, though the engravings can be difficult to see (especially with the tach mounted in the dash, as the mounting bracket obscures the engravings). The photo below illustrates each terminal connection.
If after you have confirmed all the wires and connections, the tachometer still doesn't work. Unhook the wires. A bad tachometer can really mess up the signal coming from the coil and make your bike run horribly.
