Subject: RE: Engine Removal
Author: Edward Walton
Date: Nov 13, 2004, 12:28 PM
Post ID: 1717879558
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<P>Thanks Joe great advise. I new there had to be away of getting the seal out . Came out very easy! But I inatalled the new seal too far in, soppose to be flush acording to Guzzioligy and i have it in 0.250-0.325 inch past the outside of the housing lip. Damm, what do you think, will have to do it again when i get a new seal ?. I cleaned the crankshaft with green scotchbright. It went over the crankshaft good . New Seal was a double lip Teemers light brown seal, the old one was black with a single lip !? Now I have to glue up the camshaft plug. Does breather tube gaskets ever leak ?</P>
<P>This bike is 1973 850 eldo running basket case that i bought for a touring bike!! I have a Shoie Handle Bar Faring and Calafia Fat Bags to mount on! </P>
<P>Been riding a Red Ambo since 94 and never had to do very much to keep er running! I have been all over B.C. and Washington with the Ambo and sure got the looks. Not many of these old Guzzi`s up here!</P>
<P> Rode my sons Eldo and fell in love with it ! For some of you who have been on the list for a while, my son bought Derik Hamlets old bike. My son now lives in Montreal and bikes in storage I think Ian knows all about that place!</P>
<P>As for me I just retired this year, and I am going to ride the Eldo to the National next year and everyother!!!!!!!</P>
<P>Thanks again for the help!</P>
<P>Ted<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>From: joe jump <jum-@hotmail.com>
<DIV></DIV>Reply-To: Loopfram-@topica.com
<DIV></DIV>To: Loopfram-@topica.com
<DIV></DIV>Subject: RE: Engine Removal
<DIV></DIV>Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:55:04 +0000
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>No disrespect to Greg, but I wouldn't recommend removing the rear main
<DIV></DIV>carrier to replace the seal; reason is that I've seen the flanges on
<DIV></DIV>these carriers broken off buy what I assume is a removal effort gone
<DIV></DIV>wrong. If you really need to remove the carrier I believe that two of
<DIV></DIV>bolt holes are threaded to take larger bolts so you could "Jack " the
<DIV></DIV>carier out, but make sure you do it equally.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV> I've replaced this seal a couple times; once on my V-7 Sport & once
<DIV></DIV>on a friend's 850T. I drilled a small hole through the old seal on the
<DIV></DIV>flat surface mid-way between the ID & OD & installed a sheet metal screw
<DIV></DIV>into the hole. This served as something to grab hold of with a vice
<DIV></DIV>grips to pull the seal out. After removal, you can clean up the recess
<DIV></DIV>where the seal fits with a rag, some spray carb cleaner, & if you are so
<DIV></DIV>equipped, some compressed air. Good Idea to polish up the sealing
<DIV></DIV>surface on the cranklshaft. Then slip the lubed-up new seal over the
<DIV></DIV>crank & tap it home.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Greg Bender wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Hi Ted,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Don't feel dumb at all...most of us (at least the one's humble enough to
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> admit it) have learned from experience the best way to work on the loop
<DIV></DIV>> frames by making mistakes and performing extra steps. This certainly
<DIV></DIV>> includes me! :>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> You are now staring at the back of the the bell housing, looking at the
<DIV></DIV>> flange (this assumes that you've removed the clutch, flywheel, etc). You
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> do not need to worry about supporting the crankshaft when you remove the
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> flange (unless, of course, you have the front of the crankshaft undone
<DIV></DIV>> as well...which you don't). Perhaps it is possible to remove the rear
<DIV></DIV>> main seal without pulling the flange, but I would never try it. It's
<DIV></DIV>> just too risky that you'll gouge up the crank. Even if you don't, it's a
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> great idea to clean up the end of the crankshaft with some green 3M pads
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> so that it is nice and smooth for the new seal.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> So, you need to remove the flange. But, don't just go prying it out of
<DIV></DIV>> there or you'll break the flange (this equals more money you don't want
<DIV></DIV>> to spend!). You must be very cautious and take your time. First, remove
<DIV></DIV>> all of the bolts that hold the flange to the case. I believe there are 8
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> of them. If you look carefully, you will see that 2 of the holes in the
<DIV></DIV>> flange are threaded. The rest of the holes in the flange are not
<DIV></DIV>> threaded. These threaded holes are for a special Guzzi puller. I don't
<DIV></DIV>> have this puller, but I simply purchased long metric bolts of the
<DIV></DIV>> correct size and thread pitch (I believe they are 10mm x 1.5mm; but they
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> might be 10mm x 1.25mm). Then, I carefully and evening screw each bolt
<DIV></DIV>> in. The bolts are larger in diameter than the bolts that hold the flange
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> on, so they push up against the case. You want to be careful here and
<DIV></DIV>> not get them unequal or put too much pressure on them...else you'll
<DIV></DIV>> break the flange. It sometimes helps to put a *little* pressure on them,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> then give the flange a smack with a hammer...being careful where you hit
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> it and protecting the flange with wood. Resist all temptations to pry on
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> the flange or to hit one of the webbing members of the flange.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> While you are at it, you may want to see the checklist I've put
<DIV></DIV>> together:
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/loopframe.htm#Engine_out?_Check_these_things
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Best of luck...let us know how it goes.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Edward Walton wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Greg thanks for the help. I see all the smart guys can take the tranny
<DIV></DIV>> > off in the frame ! Well dummy here has both out and on the bench.
<DIV></DIV>> > Looking at a parts list I see that the carrier housing for the rear main
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > seal is also holding the rear main bearing, is this right? And if it is,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > how do they hold the crank shaft up when they pull that housing off when
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > its in the frame ? If you do not take the housing out how does the rear
<DIV></DIV>> > main seal come out ? Any of you guys done this before?
<DIV></DIV>> > As for the JB Weld, Do you put the JB on the outside to stop oil
<DIV></DIV>> > leaks or do you have to instal the plug with it on ?.
<DIV></DIV>> > Thanks for your help Guys
<DIV></DIV>> > Ted 750 Ambo
<DIV></DIV>> > From: Greg Bender <gr-@thisoldtractor.com>
<DIV></DIV>> > Reply-To: Loopfram-@topica.com
<DIV></DIV>> > To: Loopfram-@topica.com
<DIV></DIV>> > Subject: RE: Engine Removal
<DIV></DIV>> > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:04:21 +0000
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
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<DIV></DIV>> > Research before stepping on the car lot and save THOUSANDS!
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<DIV></DIV>> >http://click.topica.com/caacOlPb1dfltb6PLDGa/LeadClick
<DIV></DIV>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Hi Ted,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Not to answer for Mark (and please correct me if I mis-speak, Mark),
<DIV></DIV>> > but...
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Generally it's a good idea to JB Weld the cam plug because some of them
<DIV></DIV>> > have tendency to leak. I suppose one could actually come out, but I've
<DIV></DIV>> > not heard of that...especially given that the forces from the helically
<DIV></DIV>> > cut cam shaft timing gear move the cam in the opposite direction. Having
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > said this, I've not JB welded mine.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > As for paper gaskets, given the effort you've gone to get everything
<DIV></DIV>> > apart and put back together, I would definitely put in new paper
<DIV></DIV>> > gaskets. There is nothing particularly excitely about the Guzzi paper
<DIV></DIV>> > gaskets that seperate them from paper gaskets you can make yourself.
<DIV></DIV>> > Guzzi one's are just already cut out. If you are planning to address
<DIV></DIV>> > other gaskets in the future, you might as well purchase the whole gasket
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > kit, as I believe you save a few dollars that way.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > As for the religious issue of whether or not to use some type of gasket
<DIV></DIV>> > sealer on the gasket, I'll leave that decision up to you.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Edward Walton wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > Mark I forget why you have to JB Weld the cam Plug ? And how inportant
<DIV></DIV>> > > is the rear seal carrier paper gasket for leaking. Do not have one can i
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > make it or should I wait and buy it?
<DIV></DIV>> > > Thanks TED
<DIV></DIV>> > > From: "Mark Etheridge@Moto Guzzi Classics" <Guzzi-@aol.com>
<DIV></DIV>> > > Reply-To: Loopfram-@topica.com
<DIV></DIV>> > > To: Loopfram-@topica.com
<DIV></DIV>> > > Subject: Re: Engine Removal
<DIV></DIV>> > > Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:58:47 EST
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
<DIV></DIV>> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> > > Are you serious about buying a NEW car or truck soon?
<DIV></DIV>> > > Research before stepping on the car lot and save THOUSANDS!
<DIV></DIV>> > > Get NO OBLIGATION price quotes from car dealers in your area.
<DIV></DIV>> > >http://click.topica.com/caacOlPb1dfltb6PLDGa/LeadClick
<DIV></DIV>> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > I leave the motor in,with front engine bolt in place,remove batt
<DIV></DIV>> > > tray,swing
<DIV></DIV>> > > arm,pull tranny,piece of cake,1st time it took all day,now i do the
<DIV></DIV>> > > complete r
<DIV></DIV>> > > and r in 3 hrs,takes a couple more to change rear bearing gasket,jb weld
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > cam
<DIV></DIV>> > > plug,change rear seal,Mark
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
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<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Regards,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Greg Bender
<DIV></DIV>> > 1971 Ambassador
<DIV></DIV>> > 2000 Quota
<DIV></DIV>> >http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
<DIV></DIV>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> > Amazing Diet Patch
<DIV></DIV>> > The fastest - Easiest way to lose weight! Try it now FREE!
<DIV></DIV>> >http://click.topica.com/caacOlIb1dfltb6PLDGf/MyDietPatches
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<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Regards,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Greg Bender
<DIV></DIV>> 1971 Ambassador
<DIV></DIV>> 2000 Quota
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Joe in St Louis
<DIV></DIV>850T-Powered Ambo
<DIV></DIV>
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