Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME

Author: Zerhackermann .

Date: Dec 14, 2001, 5:27 PM

Post ID: 1709160110

From: Robert Hawkes <haw-@frontiernet.net>
Reply-To: Loopfram-@topica.com
To: Loopfram-@topica.com
Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:31:13 -0500

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Zer,
Can't remember if I responded to your last installment yesterday but....
Your criticism of Persig seems right, he doesn't know much about bikes. He
may know something about traveling in America which seemed to be such an in
thing to do back in the 60s/70s. Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Zerhackermann . <chopp-@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopfram-@topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME

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ummm...
yep.

too self absorbed. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I give the HD

crowd
a

lot of grief, but I still appreciate the bikes and recognize what is

good
as

well as bad about them. to simply dismiss them and the owners because

the

bike doesn't break enough is pretty friggin shallow for a supposedly

deep

thinker.

Maintaining a BMW airhead of the loopframes vintage (this spans two very
different general types of BMW the /2 and /5) is really no different

than

the loop with regards to the tasks involved. true, BMWs are much more
subtle. both the guzzis and the BMWs sing songs. The BMWs is just a bit
quieter.

where they differ is the BMW tends to have a more "serious" character.
"purposeful" "efficient" etc etc are the tags that get dropped on them.

The

Guzz has the element of chaos breathed into the bike. There is always
something going on. Something unexpected.
I think that is why few people truly enjoy both bikes. because the folks
that appreciate the efficiency of the BMW are driven to distraction by

the

roller coaster the Guzz puts you on. And the folks who adore the oddness

of

the Guzzi are bored to death by the BMWs seriousness. On my BMW I go

hunting

corners and eat up miles. On my Guzzi, I just wander.


Persig does not understand these nuances. he's too busy jerking off his
frontal lobe. He might know zen. but he don't know bikes.

From: Robert Hawkes <haw-@frontiernet.net>
Reply-To: Loopfram-@topica.com
To: Loopfram-@topica.com
Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:19:13 -0500

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Zer, I'm curious, what exactly do you mean by this? Do you think

Persig
is

full of shit? Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Zerhackermann . <chopp-@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopfram-@topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME

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It's because of junk like this in his book, giving folks incorrect
misconceptions, that I consider that book to just be a poor

substitue

for

toilet paper.





"His riding partners are on BMW's. They enjoy riding but consider

repair

and
maintenance as things that are done to your bike by others and

inherently

take
away from the experience if you have to do them yourself. Their

bikes

either
run or they don't. They do not with to analyze even the simplest

problems

since
they look at the bike as a single entity. When it's broke, it's

broke

and

someone with that knowledge must fix it. I read this book before

ever

getting a
motorcycle and early on, identified that I would never be satisfied

with

a

bike
that I did not have the ability to work on myself. "

From: psabr-@aol.com
Reply-To: Loopfram-@topica.com
To: Loopfram-@topica.com
Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:04:25 EST

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OK,

Since we have introduced discussions on books and Guzzi vs

BMW/Goldwing,

I'll bring up the annual "Zen" reference. If you've never read it,

sit

down with "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". A book of
Philosophy intertwined with a study of motorcycles and their

riders.

The

reading can be dry at times, so be forewarned. The author (Pirsig)

rides

an old motorcycle and performs routine and roadside maintenance

because

it

is an anticipated and expected part of the entire riding

experience.

He

understands that his bike is a collection of interoperating systems

that

all tie together to make the bike run. If one system fails then

the

entire

"system" fails. Troubleshooting and analysis of problems adds to

his

pleasure.

His riding partners are on BMW's. They enjoy riding but consider

repair

and maintenance as things that are done to your bike by others and
inherently take away from the experience if you have to do them

yourself.

Their bikes either run or they don't. They do not with to analyze

even

the

simplest problems since they look at the bike as a single entity.

When

it's broke, it's broke and someone with that knowledge must fix it.

I

read

this book before ever getting a motorcycle and early on, identified

that
I

would never be satisfied with a bike that I did not have the

ability
to

work on myself. It is that reputation of low maintenance and

longevity

that gives me little desire to own a BMW, Although I respect their

bikes

greatly. My experience with HD is that one must perform the same

basic

tasks (i.e. replace primary cover bolts) nearly everytime the bike

is

ridden. That, to me, is silly stuff. I want a machine that when

properly

"repaired", will hold that state reliably until another "repair" is

needed.

Moto Guzzi fits nicely somewhere between the two. Generally when

a

repair must me made repeatedly to a Guzzi, then perhaps there are

other

factors which must be contributing to the problem. We can see

this,
in

that many of us have started with neglected bikes, but with time

and

persistence, the bikes end up being very reliable and consistent.

The

owners grow in knowledge and through familiarity and experience,

begin

to

anti

cipate when items must be worked on and why.

This may be a little deep and long-winded, but in my mind, it is

this

common experience and and ATTITUDE which binds the members of this

list

together.

To paraphrase the author one one of my favorite statements:
"When working on a motorcycle, the first and foremost tool one must

have
is

Gumption. Without that, no other tools will do you any good."

Thanks for the bandwidth
David Whitmore
'71 Ambassador (still gathering up the Gumption)

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